Thank you. The purpose of the group is to discuss /Colorado birds and birding in Colorado. Issues that raise impassioned replies are fairly rare on CoBirds in the last few years, and it is not always clear where the discussion will go. I felt things were polite, and commented only when I thought things were heading over the line today. The overall topic is appropriate for the list.
David Suddjian
Cobirds list moderator
Littleton, CO
Thanks David. Personally, I'd be in favor of more heavy-handed moderation to remove discussions of this topic or similar entirely. There are plenty of places to find debate on divisive topics. There are fewer and fewer places that are absent of it. This is not what I was looking for when I subscribed to this group, and I have been looking for tools to filter these posts out of my feed (largely unsuccessfully so far). I may have misunderstood the purpose of this group, however, and if so, that is on me.Disclaimer: I am but one lowly amateur birder, and this is just my opinion.Respectfully,Stephen HendrixDenver, CO--On Monday, November 6, 2023 at 12:44:29 PM UTC-7 David Suddjian wrote:Hi CoBirders,List moderator note.This has been an interesting (and polite) discussion, and certainly appropriate to CoBirds on the whole. As it proceeds I remind list members that CoBirds is about reporting on birding in Colorado, Colorado birds and things pertinent to these topics. For this issue, where there are strong opinions and deep feelings, I encourage the discussion to steer away from the lives of historic figures in contexts outside of Colorado birding. We can look those things up. Discussion of bird names and the plan and process to change them is fine. You know what I'm trying to say.Thank you,David SuddjianCoBirds moderatorLittleton, COOn Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 10:13 AM Susan Rosine <u5b2...@gmail.com> wrote:--I'm not quite sure why we're still bringing up McCown, since "his" bird already has a new moniker.Interesting that you note "the Confederacy and the evils that it stood for".Ten of the first twelve presidents owned slaves, and twelve presidents altogether had slaves at some point. Yet, we have Washington, Jefferson, Jackson and Grant on our money, stamps, etc.We also still honor men who pushed the Native American Indians from their land.Evil Confederacy? How about evil United States of America?If at one point, it was simply decided that birds named after humans was stupid in general, and therefore would all be renamed, that would be fine. Annoying, because it's a lot of name changes all at once, but fine. However, this all started because it was discovered a few of these men were not perfect, wonderful human beings. Then there had to be intense study into "just how evil" they really were. People started taking sides. These men were sort of on trial posthumously. Good or bad, cool dude or evil dude?AOS finally decided, well let's just changed them all, so we don't have to dig into each person's life. That's what I find to be ridiculous. They should have just changed them all in the first place and we wouldn't be having this discussion.Susan RosineBrightonWhether the mischaracterization of John McCown in this message as a "brave hero who took the deadly risk to speaking against the Confederacy?" is deliberately provocative or just ignorant I can't begin to diagnose, but it is certainly "fact-free." McCown is indeed credited with calling the Confederacy a "damned stinking cotton oligarchy," but this was not some repudiation of the Confederacy and all it stood for. No, it was made in the heat of a political squabble he was involved in with Jefferson Davis and some of the other generals he had a disagreement with. The fact is that John McCown resigned his United States Army commission at the beginning of the war to take up arms against his country in defense of the Confederacy and the evils it stood for, and he remained a commissioned general in that force until the very end of the war.In any case, this example alone I think neatly illustrates *precisely* why Bird Names for Birds originally formed, and why it has resulted in this decision by the AOS. If this is the quality of the supposed "history lessons" we can expect to receive from an eponym, all diversity and inclusion questions aside, we should have consigned these to the dustbin decades ago.vr/Max MillerLakewood, CO--On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 4:06:13 PM UTC-6 Robert Righter wrote:HiWhat a fascinating discussion we are all having on Cobirds about the implication of changing the names of birds.
Birds named after historical individuals offer important links to the rich history, good and bad, about how our country was formed but also how the history of birds evolved from hunting to the trill of bird watching, to the impressive transformation from birding into an important scientific organization, American Ornithological Union AOU.
Here are some brief examples of some:
Lewis's Woodpecker, named after Meriwether Lewis, the co-leader of the stupendously successful Lewis and Clark Expedition in the early 1800s which explored all the new land west to the Pacific Ocean.
John Cassin (Cassin's Finch, Cassin's Kingbird and many more) from the Philadelphia Academy of Natural Science was one of the foremost ornithologist of the ninetieth century describing numerous new bird species. He fought form the Union Army during the Civil War, captured by the Confederate Army, and spent the rest of the war in the sadistic Libby Prison, not many survived, he was lucky, but died shortly afterwards
John McCowen, (McCown's Longspur), now the Thick-billed Longspur. was a Major General in the Confederate Army, He was a brilliant tactician with just a few hundred men and one piece of artillery, he defeated an entire division of Union cavalry. McCown became disillusioned with the purpose of Confederacy and argued against it's goals and is is quoted as saying about the Confederacy, "…a damned stinking cotton oligarchy.
Was McCown a villain or a brave hero who took the deadly risk to speaking against the Confederacy?
Steller's Jay named after Georg Steller a brilliant German scientist who was asked by Peter the Great to explore Russia, which he did during the winter by dog sled. Hooked up with Captain Bering and set sail to the east and where they discovered Alaska, then spent years ship wrecked on Bering Island in the middle of the Aleutian Islands. He survived most others didn't.
This is just a taste of the intriguing history that underlies each of the bird species named after historic naturalist and ornithologist. More involved biographies of each can be found in the Colorado Field Ornithologist Journals or just tap into Google & WikipediaDo you think this level of information enhance bird watching or not.Bob RighterDenver CO
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