Saturday, 30 November 2024

Re: [cobirds] Re: Taxonomy Update - some interesting changes

Hi all,

For those interested in the subtleties of Herring Gull taxonomic treatments by our overarching authorities, you can read the original NACC proposal that was voted on in 2024, as well as the comments from individual committee members here:

Proposals:

Comments:

The NACC eventually voted 7-5 in favor of a 3-way split, to be in agreement with what is now recognized by the Clements group (at Cornell) and the IOU.* A 7-5 vote however is not enough to pass, I believe it needed to be at least 9-3 or more in favor. So at least 2 of the current no-votes would have to change before the AOS concurs with eBird.

You'll have to scroll down a ways to get to the Herring Gull proposals in either of the linked files, at 2024-A-11. Once there, for most of us the details on the arguments get deep into the phylogenetic weeds, but still are fascinating to read and make for a good exercise in developing an appreciation of how taxonomy and systematics are still developing fields of study.

Eric

* eBird has split the Herring Gull into four species actually, but the 4th is Mongolian Gull whose species status is not directly up for consideration by the NACC since its current "subspecific" range is entirely within Asia.

-------
Eric DeFonso
Boulder County, CO


On Wed, Nov 27, 2024 at 9:01 PM Peter Gent <gent@ucar.edu> wrote:
Jason,

You are absolutely correct. In its July 2024 taxonomy update, the American Ornithological Society did not split the Herring Gull and did not split the Accipiter genus.  In its October taxonomy update, both eBird and the Clements world bird list did split the Herring Gull into 4 separate species (American & European Herring Gull, Vega Gull and Mongolian Gull), and did split the Accipiter genus.  So, according to the AOS, Herring Gull is Larus argentatus and Cooper's Hawk is Accipiter cooperii, but in eBird they are American Herring Gull Larus smithsonianus and Cooper's Hawk is Astur cooperii.

At best, these differences are confusing, but at worst this shows differences between AOS decisions and eBird decisions. The Colorado Bird Records Committee has always followed the AOS as the accepted list of species for Colorado, but as is obvious, most Colorado birders submit their sightings to ebird, and many keep their different lists on ebird. I do not know anything about the origin of this difference, but I think it's not good to have differences between the two lists, and hope they are eliminated in the near future. How that would come about is not clear to me.

Cheers,  Peter Gent.
Chairman CBRC.

On Wed, Nov 27, 2024 at 6:05 PM Jason Bidgood <jason.b.bidgood@gmail.com> wrote:
I was looking at the eBird/Clements checklist updates and comparing some of the changes to the AOS and ABA checklist updates that were announced last summer. Is it correct that the Herring Gull split and splitting of the Genus Accipiter into 5 genera was not accepted by AOS but was accepted by Clements? Is it likely that this is a temporary disagreement in the lists? I'm just curious how often this happens.  

Jason Bidgood
Denver
On Wednesday, November 20, 2024 at 8:37:25 AM UTC-7 Scott Severs wrote:
Especially see changes to Herring Gull, Accipiter, Redpoll, and House Wren.

--
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Colorado Birds" group.
To post to this group, send email to cobirds@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/cobirds
* All posts should be signed with the poster's full name and city. Include bird species and location in the subject line when appropriate.
* Join Colorado Field Ornithologists https://cobirds.org/membership/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Colorado Birds" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cobirds+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/6858cc1c-685d-4dd2-b737-601f9bfed6acn%40googlegroups.com.

--
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Colorado Birds" group.
To post to this group, send email to cobirds@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/cobirds
* All posts should be signed with the poster's full name and city. Include bird species and location in the subject line when appropriate.
* Join Colorado Field Ornithologists https://cobirds.org/membership/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Colorado Birds" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cobirds+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/CADEFvCdhz8P9vrhscaHuf_WOXBxir-ECkjGHzvGVM7fbr83bbw%40mail.gmail.com.

--
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Colorado Birds" group.
To post to this group, send email to cobirds@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/cobirds
* All posts should be signed with the poster's full name and city. Include bird species and location in the subject line when appropriate.
* Join Colorado Field Ornithologists https://cobirds.org/membership/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Colorado Birds" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cobirds+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/CAFjVA_ZxgysfM6S_vpHtUix0ZPqV6-pPMreJZOhHaYvp8nLZsQ%40mail.gmail.com.
Posted by at

No comments:

Post a Comment

Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom)